As many Arsenal fans bemoan Michael Oliver’s decision to send off Myles Lewis-Skelly against Wolves on Saturday, other fans think it was a ‘great decision’. Plus, Man City vs Chelsea, Garnacho and lots more…
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Referee standards and decisions
As an Arsenal fan I could rant about Oliver (8 reds in 55 games ) and conspiracy- but it’s a well trodden path and we all have our priors and I doubt I’m changing anyone’s mind.
But I actually think a good deal of an issue that we should all be able to agree on was highlighted in the “who does the PGMOL hate more? “ derby at Molineux.
The MLS red was whatever you think it was. But it was given – and upheld – for violent conduct. Straight red. The Gomes red was a second yellow – not deemed dangerous or violent despite more studs showing. So just a foul And a yellow. VAR also upheld this interpretation.
Both decisions were made in the heat of battle. At full Speed. Now I happen to think Oliver had a mare. Again. But – let’s not kid ourselves it’s easy. He made two poor decisions. But he has to make them on little evidence, with limited view – and quickly.
VAR exists to balance those inherent weaknesses. It has lots of views. And anyone who has waited 5 minutes to celebrate a goal will be well aware that VAR is not under time pressure. It exists for these calls. To say to Oliver “that might only be a yellow. Reconsider.” And “ that’s studs up. On ankle. It’s straight red “
But outiside of offsides and minor hand balls VAR mostly exists to avoid evidence that refs make mistakes. So it just makes up rationales to agree with the call. If there is definitely a conspiracy then it is surely the one to make sure the cozy status quo is maintained. There is no meritocracy, no culture to improve.
And nobody seems to See that this just delays the inevitable outcome – the total rework of how EPL is reffed and by whom. And will make the ultimate solution so Much more draconian when it surely arrives.
Johnno
Michael Oliver…
I thought I’d seen it all when Oliver sent Martinelli off for two yellow card offences in the same action within FOUR seconds.
Then I thought I’d seen it all when he didn’t send Kovacic off for a foul WORSE than the one he just sent Lewis Skelley off for on Odegaard. The explanation from PGMOL, he didn’t want to ruin a big game with a red card so Kovacic got leniency.
Fast forward to this season and he sends Trossard off for kicking the ball away a millisecond after he’d blown the whistle for a foul. He had no issues with ruining a big game there.
Now I have seen it all, a straight red card for Lewis Skelley for a tactical foul well inside Wolves own half. Absolutely INSANE. I’ve seen that challenge probably three hundred times, and I’ve never seen it given as a red card.
Upon seeing Oliver referree Arsenal today, I thought s##t, we have to be careful and not give him a single reason to punish us. This is why:
Michael Oliver has sent seven (make that eight now) Gunners players off in 53 (54) matches, equating to an Arsenal red card in roughly 13% of all matches Oliver has officiated. Additionally, stats show an inclination to brandish yellow cards to Arsenal players at a rate above the norm, with the the Gunners averaging 1.77 bookings each game under Oliver’s watch, as opposed to the typical 1.63 for all top-league encounters Oliver has refereed.
In stark contrast, Oliver has never given a Manchester City player a red card, despite refereeing them 47 times overall. Moreover, City players have found themselves cautioned with yellow cards just 1.36 times per match with Oliver at the helm. Now when you consider that City have Rodri, the master of tactical fouls that is pretty unbelievable. I understand they have more of the ball and control, but ZERO red cards?
I don’t think there is a conspiracy against Arsenal with the PGMOL, but I do think Oliver is corrupt.
What’s worse is, we should have been in the lead but Kai missed two massive first half chances. You can’t do that when Oliver is the ref, you never what he’ll conjure up.
Strevs, AFC, Canada
Hi,
I’m sure you’ll get a lot of emails about Michael Olivers harsh red on MLS today.
I just want to highlight that this is the same ref, who gave Kovacic just a single yellow card for 2 tackles on Odegaard and Rice, which were both worse than MLS’s today (both tackles were studs up and above the ankle, and so should be classed as serious foul play based on how PGMOL are defending his decision to send off MLS today) in the Arsenal v Man City home game last season.
I’ve never been one to cry conspiracy with refs, but this Kovacic decision looks more and more suspect when you look at what he’s sent other Arsenal players off for.
He sent off Trossard for kicking the ball away less than a second after the whistle went in the City away game this season, and sent off Martinelli for 2 fouls in the same phase of play after waving play on, against Wolves a few years ago too. People can say by the letter of the law these sending off can be justified , but in terms of what’s dangerous and keeping players safe, Kovacic doing 2 potential ankle breaking fouls was much, much worse.
If you look at it logically it just doesn’t make sense.
Izzy
Always rated Oliver.
Stu AFC Illinois
Roll up roll up for the great you’ll never ever see a decision given like that against a team that isn’t Arsenal ever again rollercoaster.
Simon, London
I think i might have misunderstood why we tune into the Prem these days. There’s one man who is changing more matches than anyone, in new and creative ways, and just doesn’t get the credit for innovation he deserves.
– Introduces the Martinelli double yellow
– Outdoes that with the Dalot double protest yellow
– Crafts a new, never again upheld penalty standard with the Rodri dive against United
– Applies the ‘for the bantz’ rule by not booking Kovacic in a crucial title tie
– Decides to get ETH the boot by making up a last minute penalty no one else saw, including the ref
– watched replays of Doku literally kick a player in the chest and said it was fine
– And now a brand new Skelly-rule!
What will he do next!? Tune in next week.
Ryan, Bermuda (fun fact, he’s reffed City and Arsenal broadly the same amount, sent a gunner off 8 times. And none for City. Weird)
Looking forward to PGMOL, ex refs, any anti Arsenal pundit and all rival fans twisting themselves in knots to try to justify Michael Oliver’s decision to send off Lewis-Skelly. This is going to be fun!
Rich,AFC
I read the online fury before I saw the highlights…
I mean, I wouldn’t have disagreed with a yellow, and feel for him because it looked like a mistimed attempt to trip rather than deliberate violent conduct, but the contact was a studs up straight leg right into the man’s ankle, with no attempt to play the ball…. a potential leg breaker.
I don’t really see why the red is so controversial to be honest.
Andy (MUFC)
Hi,
What a great decision by the ref yesterday.
The Arsenal lad is a seriously impressive player. But on this occasion he made no attempt to play the ball. He’s not looking at where it is. He’s looking at the defender. He takes the opposite leg to the one carrying the ball. The guy is running at pace. It hasn’t got the drama of one of those shin crunchers but the pace the guy is moving at meant he could have done some serious damage. Definite red.
Keep up the good work ref and up the Spurs which has absolutely no bearing on how I perceive the aforementioned incident.
Cheers
Andrew
Why can’t Bournemouth win the league?
Warning
Wanted a click.
I’m pretty sure forest are the best team ever
I’m pretty sure every website has declared forest are going to win the league
I’m pretty sure anyone over 40 realised there is and remains zero chance
I’m pretty sure knee jerk is a word the young journos don’t understand
Bournemouth are in the title race. Obviously they are not. But don’t let that get in the way of a click and yes…. I’m talking to you Winty. Do yourself a favour … don’t let will, Jason or Steven write an article saying Bournemouth are amazing.
We elders know they are not. We want you to write articles with reality and not speculation with ( based on 6 games) knee jerk
Fair play to forest and Bournemouth. But they are not my complaint. Sensational journalism is.
( bet there’s a village missing an idiot *reporting* Arsenal are *still* in the title race
Don’t print this. You don’t want to confuse the 23-33 year olds.
Ade ( 20 is coming ) x
No one cares about City
Matt Tee with the most HILARIOUS email I have read in a while. I am still not sure he was sarcastic or the line below was written in earnest:
“Because without their money, power, big names, constantly getting into Europe (which gains money English football), losing City out of the league will kinda bankrupt the Premier League”
MATE WHAT!!!
– City brings in NOTHING to the premier league or viewership numbers that any of the other 19 clubs don’t. Whatever money they bring in through their scams, they keep and use. And what power? The power to have a smaller fan base than Newcastle or West Ham in spite of being successful beyond imagination? Or the power to commit fraud? What powers exactly have City used to help the Premier League ???!
– Big names? Like who? If City dissolves today, all the players and Pep would nicely fit in at any club in the premier league or around the world. None of the names other than Pep & Haaland are even close to marketable. And they would be more marketable at any other club in the world.
– Constantly getting into Europe. You do understand that their spot will go to whoever finishes top 4/5 right? UEFA ain’t going to retire the spot just cause they love City so much. What is the logic here?
– City were a relegation team pre 2010 or whatever. The EPL was thriving and doing better than ever. Tomorrow if the club were to disappear, it wouldn’t make 1% difference in revenue, finances, stadium attendances, league viewership or broadcast rights.
Let me make this simple for you, if any of United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Villa, Newcastle or even fuckin West Ham cease to exist, it will make a 10 times more difference to the Premier League Product than City would.
Again, I am really hoping the mail was written in sarcasm buddy.
Regards,
Aman
Apparently Matt thinks city can’t be punished because it would bankrupt the league city are the glue which holds it all together.
Back in the 80s Liverpool were the city of the day. Dominated everything all the best players were there etc
Then all English teams got banned from Europe and….the league didn’t go bankrupt despite EVERY team not bringing in euro money. So the idea that a team who didn’t really exist 14 years ago being so important to British football that the whole league goes bankrupt if they aren’t in it is so ludicrously silly that I can only assume it’s a troll.
City are so important to everyone in the UK that their stadium is half empty most of the time and their own fans don’t think they’re important enough to watch.
If city are relegated (which I don’t think is likely, fine and transfer ban is most likely if you ask me) then the only affect on everyone else will be to follow the rules because if the richest and most successful team of the last few years can be punished despite them drowning the FA in legal fees with their wealth – then anyone and everyone can be punished.
Aside from that most people will go right back to forgetting city even exist, like most of their own fans.
Lee
Most Arsenal fans aren’t conspiracy theorists. But, you fat, smug northerners love to pile on. Oh, I’m sorry. Did you not like that general assumption? Go f*ck yourself. Just because an idiot doesn’t complain about an injustice they experienced doesn’t suddenly make them tough. And, just because a person complains about repeated offences doesn’t mean they’re “moaning and whinging” without merit. It’s entirely possible that Michael Oliver coincidentally gives Arsenal players dubious red cards against Wolves (it almost certainly is). Even if he has a subconscious bias against Arsenal that’s bad enough. Oh, and all refs are human, so we already know they have their opinions. And we know they have a choice. And “by the letter of the law” is the refuge of simple-minded men. So, can Oliver explain why Gomes got a second yellow for his stamp but MLS got a straight red? Above or below the ankle shouldn’t make a difference. And, I’ll say again that rival fans who love to pile on should be getting angry at the refs, too. But, you won’t. You’ll just scoff in northern.
Simon, Norf London Gooner
I’m not an Arsenal fan by any stretch and I usually find their travails slightly amusing. But it is getting a bit silly now, the number of absolute nonsense decisions that are going against them.
Only Michael Oliver could think that warranted a red card. And ONLY Darren “I can’t do anything. I can’t do anything. F*ck” England could fail to overturn it.
Yes, both of them have been paid to referee in the UAE. This is purely coincidental, though Arsenal fans (and probably Liverpool and United fans) will probably put 2+2 together to make 5. They’re not actively choosing to screw those teams over and give favourable decisions to City. Are they?
No. They’re just bloody incompetent. PGMOL remains unfit for purpose and the media are baffling (wilfully?) blind to the need to get rid.
VAR isn’t ruing the game – it’s the humans.
Ashmundo (3-0 to Fulham today?)
Kind regards
Ashley Metcalfe
The City Fart Blaster Gun Dichotomy
City fan here. Time was, any City defeat would leave me gutted for most of the week, unable to shake the gloom and re-running the game over and over in my head. Bearing in mind I watched my first game at Maine Road in 1972, then that’s a fair amount of negative energy being produced by me over the past fifty years or so.
But then, as everything else in life, context is everything. These days, I don’t get quite as excised when my team loses. Do I love my club any less? I don’t think so. Am I still gutted when we lose? You betcha. But as most reading this will know, life has a way of slapping you, and very hard, around the back of the head when you least expect it and, whether you want to or not, makes you re-focus on priorities that don’t include blokes kicking a football around for 90+ minutes.
I haven’t written in about City’s down form recently (Though I read the mailbox pretty much every day. Lovely distraction) as I’ve had other things to concentrate on*. But I read a lot of mails last week with a wry smile. Some of the usual suspects (looking at you Minty) and some new ones, who just couldn’t resist the ‘Pep’s only a chequebook manager’ narrative. But of course he is. Because if just throwing squillions at the best players in the world and hoping that that, in itself, would make those players the best TEAM on the planet and guarantee success on the pitch, would surely have seen either United or Chelsea winning a treble in the last ten years wouldn’t it? Or winning four leagues in a row? Or becoming Centurions?
No? What’s that? There must be another factor that that makes these individuals play as a cohesive unit, with purpose and a collective plan? Hmmm. What on earth could that factor be?
On to Saturday. In my opinion, and having just beaten Chelsea 3-1, City are not ‘back’. It’s my view, and mine alone, that both the PL and CL titles are beyond us this year. FA cup? Maybe, but not holding my breath. Top four? I think so but I say that with both sets of fingers very much firmly crossed. The club screwed up not refreshing the squad in the summer. I’m not sure there can be any argument about that now, and here we are with three new signings in the January window. Only time will tell if that is desperation or genius. Hey Ho.
Very much hope I’m wrong of course, and here’s hoping both Liverpool and Arsenal have a complete meltdown. Just can’t see it myself.
**The ‘priority,’ at all costs, was the acquisition of an ‘Ultimate Fart Blaster Gun’ (I’m not kidding!) something I had signally failed to do for Christmas.
Kids. Pfft! Honestly.
Mark (We’re going to be bombarded by Michael Oliver Deep State mails aren’t we?) MCFC.
Man City vs Chelsea uncomfortable observations
Swearing to never watch Man C games as they always win when I watch them;Having said that, some uncomfortable observations from a POV who doesn’t care about either sides;
1. Khusanov (their RB) visibly had one of the worst debuts for any professional;
Watching from India, where the commentators (I think Jim Beglin and co.) were far too often referring to the player as the ‘Uzbekistan’ player/defender;
To a point where I had to write this mail; just weird from a commentator POV, especially in the current era.
It’s even weirder that Marmoush was just referred by his name;
So hopefully no regional favourtism there…
2. Coming to regional favouritism; Palmer was sh*t for a player who’s supposed to be his side’s talisman; and yet nobody (hi commentators) even mentioned it;
Again, hopefully no regional favouritism there.
3. Even after a sh*te season, City are fourth.
4. Thankfully both title contenders won on the weekend; so the mailbox would be a fresh one (hopefully)
M.Nair
Alejandro Garnacho can’t pass…
Dave, yes, Garnacho takes a lot of shots. Unfortunately, he can’t actually get many of them on target and certainly not into the goal. 3 prem league goals btw, from those 4 shots per 90. His shooting is worse than that of Nunez, and massively lower than Højlund (who has one of the best goals to chances ratio). Imagine if he passed in those positions instead. But…
…as you say, he can’t pass. Which is a kind of critical part of the role.
You would choose to keep that stellar provider of useless stats and little end product over players who can actually deliver what the team needs?
People say mine are hot takes but that one is direct from the sun.
Badwolf
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